Comments on Emerging Worshiper: Has Oregon Made Me A Liberal?

Of COURSE I agree with you. Were you expecting oth...

2009-03-20T15:57:00.000-07:00

Of COURSE I agree with you. Were you expecting otherwise? You nailed it when you said the answer is that we serve them, and when we get tired, we serve some more.Better yet, let's love them. Let's love them as much or even more than we love ourselves. That's when we begin to realize that we are no better in God's eyes than they are. From a spiritual perspective, poverty is often a good thing. And choices that lead to poverty may seem foolish to us. But who is truly the foolish one? What does it profit a man if he gain the world but lose his soul?

p.s. I'm pretty impressed you agreed with me almos...

2009-03-16T21:08:00.001-07:00

p.s. I'm pretty impressed you agreed with me almost 100%!

Yes, I agree...we don't shrik our responsibilities...

2009-03-16T21:08:00.000-07:00

Yes, I agree...we don't shrik our responsibilities...you know something else I was thinking about..have you ever read the book "the greatest generation"? It is fascinating because it is about people coming of age during the depression. Now talk about poverty...or are we? There is a big difference between being poor and being impovished. Over and over people growing up in the depression will tell you that didn't know they were poor. They didn't have a lot but neither did most people...BUT they were not impoverished. They were still in families that were intact, in communities where people came together to help one another, they were part of churches that came together and provided hope, counsel and helped them that they were part of something bigger than themselves. What I see today is much deeper than poverty and I guess that is where the bad choices have taken a toll...what I see today is a people who are impoverished...the breakdown of the family...people not belonging to any churches that could be a safety net...not only the breakdown of the immediate family, but the extended one as well...a tremendous breakdown of education to where we really are producing a country at large that has not more than a 5th grade reading level (remember why USA TODAY got started?) Do you realize most public highschools will graduate a majority of all students with no more than a 5th grade reading level? Yes, we do have to get in the trenches more than most of us are doing...to be quite honest as a mom trying to teach my own children to follow the ways of the Lord so they can walk in the ways of the wise takes about all the energy I have. On the other hand I live my life in the trenches...met a kid last week who moved to the state I work in 2 weeks ago because dad #3 was hitting mom, but not to worry because she met dad #4 in a bar last week and he has already moved in...I am in the trenches, but it is against the law for me to offer this family a different kind of hope in the workplace. Obviously, I don't know the answer..it's so big. Maybe the answer is simple..just serve others and when you are tired serve some more...trust His grace and strength is sufficient for all else. In terms of politics, not sure how much of this should be public policy...I think those of us who give and serve in His name will always produce the better gifts than any public policy can.
RB

Hey Renee! Thanks for such a great comment! I agre...

2009-03-16T16:08:00.000-07:00

Hey Renee! Thanks for such a great comment! I agree with you almost 100%. The problem comes when we shirk our responsibilities to the poor based on our assumptions about their personal lives. The truth is that once we are in the trenches serving them as Jesus asks us to, only then are we able to get to know each individual personally and offer advice with regard to any bad choices they may or may not be making.

Ken,
It's your friend Renee here. Ummm, I get w...

2009-03-16T12:40:00.000-07:00

Ken,
It's your friend Renee here. Ummm, I get where you are coming from in terms of being the hands and feet of Jesus and not necessarily focusing on lifestyle choices. At the same time isn't proverbs full of encouragement to choose well in life. I'm at work and don't have my Bible with me...but many examples of if a man will not work neither will he eat...choosing wise/good friends who will lead you down the right paths and not the wrong paths...stay away from the wicked...do not mingle with the adultress. I will say, I have spent a lot of time thinking about this because you are correct we still need to be the hands and feet of Jesus in this world. But most therapist I know are completely burned out because we see up close and personal on a daily basis the problem with poor choices made by adults...kids growing up in poverty, endless cycles of a mom having 6 kids with 6 different men and then coming to us because of course 1.their boys are angry and 2. their girls are permiscuous, kids of these homes porportionally outnumber kids in special education because IQ wise they are usually very very low...often because of drugs and alcohol use. For crying out loud...it seems to me that we are becoming more of a nation where "personal responsibility" is a dirty word. Is it too much to teach our children to make wise decisions...to teach our young girls not to make babies with a guy when you do not have the benefit of marriage...the list goes on and on. So, I guess I agree in the fact that we can't have a "they got what they deserve" attitude...we are definitely not "off the hook" to feed the hungry and cloth the homeless because of their bad choices, but I also think this is where the church can make a difference in peoples lives. To do that though it takes people willing to get in the trenches with people are in a habit of making poor choices...I guess that could be another topic in and of itself.

John, welcome to Emerging Worshiper!

I thin...

2009-02-10T22:07:00.000-08:00

John, welcome to Emerging Worshiper!

I think you are mostly right. Google Jim Wallis and Sojourners and God's Politics and you will see that progressives are reclaiming a faith oriented support base to their politics. I think the recent Bush presidency disillusioned a lot of Christians.

There are many men and women of faith in politics, many with good intentions and ideals, even though they may have differing views and differing moral compasses. But I firmly believe that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If there were a way to separate money from politics, we would be in a lot better shape.

I have never believed that Republican Politicians ...

2009-02-10T16:34:00.000-08:00

I have never believed that Republican Politicians cared about morality. In my opinion, they courted Christian Evangelicals just to get their votes. Not that Democrats are any different. Talking to older generations, it seems, at least in some parts of the country, it was the Democrats that at one time held up the moral flag, probably for the same reasons.

So, I do not see morality as an attribute of any party. I do not align my vote with a party because of it's claims to morality. Who, in their right mind, would believe a politician when it comes to promoting morality?

John

I have been doing a little more research, and ther...

2009-01-31T02:20:00.000-08:00

I have been doing a little more research, and there seems to have been quite a debate over the last several years about abortion statistics. And it is interesting to note that abortion statistics positively trend with unemployment statistics. If so, it will be interesting to see the data for the last couple years once it is "official". Yet another terrible result of poverty. Perhaps conservatives need to get more motivated about fighting poverty, since it apparently increases the likelihood of abortion. Check out this blog post from 2004:

http://theologica.blogspot.com/2004/10/prof-stassen-responds.html

I agree with you that the law is likely to never c...

2009-01-30T21:44:00.000-08:00

I agree with you that the law is likely to never change. That's why I think policies and initiatives to reduce abortions is the better way to go. I thought Juno was a great movie.

I remember having conversations with you about how...

2009-01-29T23:20:00.000-08:00

I remember having conversations with you about how bizarre you thought our recycling programs were in this state. It's second nature to us. It is a liberal program? Not really or at least it shouldn't be. Shouldn't conservatives really want to conserve?

I almost thing that very man and woman involved in a pregnancy should be required to view a 4-month ultrasound before having an abortion. The movie Juno illustrated that to a great extent. The law is likely to never change and Christian have to come to terms with that. That doesn't mean we still don't hold the moral high ground on this issue. Eventually, the same will be said about gay marriage in this country.

I'm not sure that there is a voice left in the Republican Party anymore that speaks to Christians. If anything, Obama speaks more to values that are consistent with traditional Christianity (taking care of the poor, peace, collectivism vs. individualism, etc.). That is why he won a greater majority of evangelicals compared to the last 10 years.

KZ

I got the stats from the National Right To Life Co...

2009-01-29T12:29:00.000-08:00

I got the stats from the National Right To Life Coalition website. Here is the link:

http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/facts/abortionstats.html

It is interesting that apparently some organizations are claiming that abortion figures actually INCREASED under the Bush administration. But the webpage I site was put up by NRLC to refute those claims.

I'm sure all stats are fallible and up for interpretation, but I tried to use the most right-wing source I could find.

Hey Ken, do you have a source for those abortion s...

2009-01-29T07:42:00.000-08:00

Hey Ken, do you have a source for those abortion statistics? I'd be really interested in looking at them further.

Thanks!